Phylicia Masonheimer is a wife, mom of 3 littles, national bestselling author of Stop Calling Me Beautiful, speaker, podcaster, and blogger. She joins me on the Home and Hearth podcast for the third time, this time to chat all about Catholicism and how Protestants and Catholics ought to interact.
What we Chat about in This Episode
~The DM I received which led to this conversation
~Catholic theology 101
~The beginning of the Catholic church; Peter as the first Pope
~How the legalization of Christianity by Constantine in the 300s affected and changed the church into an entity with political power; how this led to problems Luther later addressed
~The church split between the Eastern Orthodox church and the Western Roman Catholic church in 1066
~What church history reveals about the Catholic church
~The oftentimes vitriolic discord between Catholics and Protestants today and what we should do about it
~The good (and not so good!) aspects of the Reformation
~Good that has come from the Catholic church
~The crucial importance about being honest about church history
~The Catholic church’s own inside Reformation
~The importance of willingly calling sin sin – no matter what camp it is coming from
~Answering the question of whether or not there are Christians in the Catholic church
~The similarities and differences between the Catholic Church at the Council of Trent and the Catholic Church today; the implications of Vatican II in the 20th century
~How the nominal approach to Christianity which Catholics are accused of is also prevalent in the Protestant church, as well
~Similarities between certain issues in the Catholic church and certain of the same issues in the Protestant church
~How we as Protestants are too often guilty of misrepresenting what Catholics actually believe; the importance of basing our view of Catholicism on Catholic sources and resources themselves, rather than on mere hearsay
~The existence of bias in all of us
~The prejudice that can exist between Catholics and Protestants; how knowing actual church history can help us with this
~Being willing to be an honest critical thinker as opposed to running to the traps of legalism and extremism
~Our call to do good works as the hands and feet of Christ
~Being very careful what we do and do not label as a cult
~Being willing to be slow to speak, quick to listen, and quick to understand; the huge impact this can have on our interactions with people we do disagree with
~The existence of variations of belief among Catholics, just as there are among Protestants
~Bringing down straw man arguments
~And more!
Resources Mentioned
Offer for a free audiobook and 30 day trial membership from Audible: www.audibletrial.com/HomeandHearth
First time Phy was on the show – Episode 021: The Sex Talk for the Single Girl
Second time Phy was on the show – Gospel-Driven Productivity
My podcast episodes with Emilie Cubino on Early Church Mothers
Phylicia’s podcast episode on Mariology
Podcast – N.T. Wright on Catholicism and the Orthodox church
The Finochio brothers on Catholicism
Catholic Stuff You Should Know Podcast
Father Mike Schmitz’s Bible in a Year Podcast
The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the Bible by Michael Heiser
Inspiring Quotes from Phylicia:
“When Protestants look back between the days of the early church and the days of the Protestant Reformation and think nothing good happened during those centuries, I remind them that the gospel they hold to today had to come from somewhere. It had to be preserved and passed down through the generations by somebody. And during those in-between years, it was the Catholic church and the Orthodox church that passed down those gospel teachings.”
“Interestingly, after the Protestant Reformation and that Protestant split, the Catholic church then actually went through their own reformation from the inside. They did reject some of Luther’s teachings, but they also did begin to remove some of the corruption that was taking place in the Catholic church.”
“The Reformation brought about some good and very important reforms, theologically. But we have to be honest about the whole picture and just as we are willing to point out the corruption in the Catholic church at the time, we must also be willing to point out the corruption that took place among the Protestant Reformers at the time, as well. We need to be willing to call sin sin regardless of where it is emerging from – whether Catholicism or Protestantism.”
“Yes, the facts are the facts. But even facts can be bent in order to suit or prove a certain narrative. This is why it is so important to look at these facts from various sources and perspectives. Our ultimate goal must be to find and uphold truth – not just our own desires or our own positions.”
“When you read only the gospel itself presented itself from a Catholic source – and not other church traditions being covered, as well – you as a Protestant would agree with it one hundred percent. Sometimes the waters do get muddied and other things do get added, but that happens in various circles of Protestantism, as well. So, if you are talking about just the Catholic Church’s stance on the gospel itself, you cannot say there are no Christians at all in the Catholic church.”
“We should never be afraid to discuss theology and express a disagreement with someone. But we also should not base our view of a certain church based on mere hearsay. We as Protestants can be really bad about completely misrepresenting Catholic beliefs because we are just going to fellow Protestant sources for information about what Catholics supposedly believe. Fundamentals of integrity, honesty, and asking questions well require our going to the source and not merely listening to whatever makes us feel good. We as Protestants would not want to have our beliefs misrepresented. We shouldn’t be ok with doing that to others.”
“If you are focusing just on core doctrines only and not on all the additional, secondary doctrines, you might be surprised by just how eye-to-eye a Protestant would be with a Catholic.”
“There is a works-based problem in the Catholic church sometimes. But there’s also a works-based problem in the Protestant church, as well. That’s how the enemy works – he tries to get in and get us to rely on our own good works.”
“We need to stop viewing the Catholic church as the devil based on mere hearsay, and instead be willing to grow in our understanding of what Catholics actually believe. On the core salvation doctrines, we actually see eye to eye. There are other doctrines they hold to which cause me to not be Catholic, but we have to be honest about the similarities we do have.”
“The first prayer you pray in the Rosary is actually the Apostle’s Creed – that’s what Protestants hold to! The second is the Lord’s prayer. It’s not until you get to the third prayer – the hail Mary- where you get to a difference between Catholics and Protestants.”
“Criticize in order to uplift. If you are criticizing out of fear, anxiety, or hatred, that is not discernment. That is sin.”
“When there is genuinely an error in a doctrine, we should be concerned. But we need to not make the mistake of thinking our harshness or criticism is automatically righteous anger. We need to do some heart work and see if we are even walking by the Spirit as we are speaking out about false doctrine.”
“There is a variation of thought even among Catholics, just as there are among Protestants. This must be taken into consideration before we paint Catholicism with a broad brush.”
“It’s really easy to burn down a straw man. It’s easy to present a caricature of what someone actually believes, an extreme caricature, and present it as if it represents what they actually believe. But it’s not helpful and it’s not godly.”
Where You Can Find Phylicia Online
Website – Phylicia Masonheimer
Facebook – Phylicia Masonheimer
Instagram – @phyliciamasonheimer
Podcast – Verity with Phylicia Masonheimer
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As a protestant married to a Catholic, I really appreciate this episode! My husband and I attend both Catholic mass and Wesleyan church service each Sunday with our three young kids. While I don’t ever intend to become Catholic, I wish all protestants and even those without faith could hear this episode. We’ve heard ALL the misconceptions (many of which I originally held!), and we’ve faced criticism from both sides. This episode clears up a lot of it. Thank you both for this.